The ShikkerDovid for the first time would like to make a controversial statement. He is against people attending “start up” shabbat morning minyamin. He feels that they sap the vitality and energy of shuls whose mandate goes beyond just prayer. The Shikker Dovid sees a synagogue as not merely places to worship, but also as community centers which ensure the health and welfare of the Jewish community. The shul is often the backstop or safety net for elderly or people on the economic fringe. Therefore the role of the shul must be protected. Any start up minyan must be careful not to impinge on the energy of its neighboring shul
The proof can be found from a thought in Niddah 33b and 34A. There is a long discussion and debate of the tumah an, zivah status of cutheans and sadducees. In the midst of this dry and rather difficult passage, the Talmud makes a beautiful statement when asked about the status of a saddduce. TheTalmud states the situation which is being discussed: It was a festival and pilgrimage and the rabbis rendered the tumah of an am haaretz like taharah during the festival.
The talmud cites a verse in Shoftim displaying this achdus: All of the men gathered in the city like one man-chaverim (comrades)
The is a beautiful thought. Those amei haaretz by coming to Jerusalem and people part of a community gathering gain the strength and spiritual vitality of a purity. The mechanism for this is the Festival and more importantly, being part of the mandate for Jews to gather. The above cited pasuk shows the strength is not merely being in Jerusalem, but through the display of unity, all ar “chavers”.
Not controversial at all Shikker Dovid….emes way of looking at the strength of a tzibur….on the other side I would be very worried about being a person who separates and perhaps causes others to separate from a tzibur. That is one strong force people choose to go up against….
David, you were obviously drunk when you wrote this post. The community is not made up of a homogenous group, but a diverse fabric that is sown together. The success of new shuls, illustrates the voids in the old system. These new groups parallel the larger connected world of the 21 century, such as Facebook and Twitter where one can funnel there interst. Rather than critiquing these new blooms in Jewish revival, it would be more successful, and creative, to incorporate their energies into the Klal.
Robot lost a screw there….shikkerdovid loves the khal ….not into the agudos
If only these “blooms” where true shula with a social network such as Chevra kadisha food banks, chests finds or simply a safety net for the needy. The blooms u talk of are not called upon in. Crisi. Even their members look to Shuls when they sit shiva, get sick or are on need. Real blooms need roots in community before they can drain nutrients from other trees
Sent from my iPhone
Beautiful shikkerdovid….now you have me thinking all about עציץ נקוב
I guess you started drinking early to day, as this view is pretty naive. In fact, when I was at Darchi Noam about a month ago, I was asked if I could serve on their Chevra Kadisha. During my fathers shiva, it was KRA that organized the minyan, and we never missed one service. While each of these groups are still in their nascent development, I can foresee their growth as enriching everyone, since the alternative is Jews not finding any place and leaving the pews entirely empty. Rather than critizing, I think you should use this forum to incorporate and welcome new ideas, shuls, and people. I can still remember growing up in my big upper east side synagogue, being completely ignored… I felt more comfortable at a rock concert than in THEIR service, at least that was before I heard the outcast, Sholmo Carlebach (who was also disparaged in his day, and now even you sing his melodies…)
ShikkurDovid is 100% right! The fact that the community is made up of a diverse group of people doesnt mean that they dont come together…thats just the point-they come together because thats a value!
“RobotRabbi” criticizes the old system…but those who partake in the “new” system generally dont participate in the community – except when it provides something to them – they are generally not supporting the elderly, the rabbis, the poor or others – they are supporting themselves!
I am afraid your view is completely without merit or undstanding, being a person that is in and out of the place you call community I can attest that the services you proclaim are sponsored by the people you espouse. Next time, have a drink with Dovid and be more positive…
Wow…we now have a first for darchei….rabbi robot is the first rav in the community to set foot in that service….
It is important to keep this all “l’sham shamayim”
Sent from my iPhone
Actually Darchi has many Rabbi supporters, probably the most well known is Rabbi Sperber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Sperber. It would be great if people would celebrate diversity and the voice of ever Jew (man or woman), this is how we achieve true ahavat yisrael.
Please let all these posts be made with derech eretz and l’sham shamayim
Sent from my iPhone
Of course, but you let the cookie crumble… To only find out that it is not a black & white.
Agreed. Such “start up” or “break away” minyanim do not provide rabbis for guidance or support, which is a luxery we receive from having a leader. Ish hayashar bainav Yaaseh-each man would do what HE feels is right, according to what HE wants, and not for the communal good.
RabbiRobot is clearly affected by his youth where he felt disconnected in his shul. I agree with RabbiRobot that people have to feel connected and there is nothing wrong with any minyan being able to bring people together during shiva or whatever, d”n, kra or whatever. But that is very different from people who go to these minyanim because they want something specific but arent willing/prepared/able to build a community there and go back to the “old” place for “community.” when they need it. A shul is a marriage and for better or worse your part of a tzibur. Pick one and stick with it. But dont stuff our heads with this “bs” “old” vs. “new”. In the new world, divorce is off the charts, marriage is down, there are all kinds of “marriages” that are condoned, teachers are sleeping with students – all in the name of giving the individual what (s)he wants!
You missed my point, today we live in an Orthodox world of bouqitue Judiasm, where people can pick and choose a minyan to reflect their personal desires, from shtiebels to progressive services. SD brings up a valid point that this new trend potentially erodes the established community infrastructure. I would propurt that these boutiques are casting a wider net and bringing in more people into the fold similar to Chabad worldwide. My purpose of responding initially was to express my displeaure at the general “us vs. them” tone of my friend’s post. As Jews we do not believe you are either “with us, or against us”, we look to find creative ways to incorporate each other’s point of view in the community simillar to hosting ushpizin during Sukkot or the four sons at the sedar.
I was always taught But in Loshon HaKodesh is the equivalent of Efes.
hardly controversial but duly noted. Considering the fact that you yourself seem to know everyone in every shul i would nominate you to start your own shul and officially become ‘The ShikkerDovid Rebbe’ . A lot of the rabbonim, rabbis, rabbet (or whatever woman rabbis are called. im sure theyre likely called rabbi though) could learn a thing or two from your achdus of just being a torah loving jew.